A use-of-force expert testifying for Derek Chauvin’s defense team on Tuesday said the former Minneapolis Police officer was justified in kneeling on George Floyd for over nine minutes and did not use deadly force.

“I felt that Derek Chauvin was justified and was acting with objective reasonableness, following Minneapolis Police Department policy and current standards of law enforcement in his interactions with Mr. Floyd,” said Barry Brodd, a former police officer.

The crux of his argument was that he did not consider putting a handcuffed Floyd in the “prone control” position on the street to be a use of force. He even suggested that it was safer for the subject because if they get up and fall they might hurt their face.”

It doesn’t hurt. You’ve put the suspect in a position where it’s safe for you, the officer, safe for them, the suspect, and you’re using minimal effort to keep them on the ground,” Brodd said.

On cross-examination, Brodd explained that he doesn’t consider the prone control position to be a use of force because it does not cause pain. Prosecutor Steve Schleicher then showed Brodd a still image of Chauvin’s knee digging into Floyd’s neck and asked whether that position might cause pain. Brodd said it “could,” so Schleicher asked him if that means Chauvin’s action was a use of force.

“Shown in this picture, that could be a use of force,” Brodd said.

Brodd’s testimony came Tuesday as the defense called its first six witnesses in Chauvin’s trial, including two who discussed Floyd’s prior arrest and drug use in May 2019. Together, the witnesses furthered the defense’s three main arguments in the case: that Floyd died due to drug and health problems, that Chauvin’s use of force was ugly but appropriate, and that a hostile crowd of bystanders distracted Chauvin.

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